People tell me I look like my dad.
He’s a white man with kind eyes and height to reach the top shelf;
I’m an Asian girl with faint freckles and sun-wrinkled skin at 20.
We both have noses.
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I think it’s hard for me to write about my father,
I think I don’t know how to be a daughter,
I think I remember searching for pine cones and approval in the garden.
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Dad’s taking singing lessons and
dad walks the dog at 6 A.M. and
dad was sad at me once because I didn’t know the months in order;
dad makes sweet potatoes with coconut milk every time I come home.
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Dad texts pictures of book pages and sunsets,
dad remembers everything,
dad lives so gracefully.
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I want to stand on his toes forever.
On October 13th of this year (or maybe last, I’m not sure, time just passes, time just folds), my dad wrote in to our local radio station about the singing lessons he was taking at age 52. KEXP DJ John Richards read the note out loud on the air (2:40).
That soundbite, to me, is a treasure. It’s a little piece of my dad and it’s a record of his love for music and his love for living.
Here’s the thing. Today is my dad’s birthday (happy birthday, dad!) and so I’m so deeply and extremely excited and grateful and honored that for this edition, I got to sit down for a full conversation with John Richards himself to talk about family, music, and so much more. John is a DJ on the radio station I grew up listening to in Seattle, he makes an incredible and important podcast called The Dr and the DJ, and he also is a champion of the ever-important message that “you are not alone” through the Music Heals series, and so much more. His words are truly such a gift.
It’s a conversation that left me in tears — both happy and sad at the same time (hi, Kacey Musgraves). It’s one I haven’t stopped thinking about. I hope you enjoy.
I have this fond memory of sometime earlier in the pandemic when I was home from college, and my dad called me downstairs to listen to the Friday song, and after it played we could hear one of your sons faintly in the background, and it just made us both really smile.
What are some of the biggest or smallest ways that being a radio DJ is like being a dad?
Well, it definitely helps with the fact that I manage 40 DJs as well. When you manage DJs, everyone's different. You’re kind of firm with some people, kind of not with others. But on the air, I think empathy is the lesson I've learned from being a parent. Impact with someone close to you. When you're on the mic, especially in the morning, you're very direct with another human, you're one on one with them — that's how you talk on a microphone is to talk to one person. So when you parent, you have to be very present. You gotta have a lot of patience being a parent, especially through a pandemic. And so I try to be as patient as possible because I have a lot of people sending in a lot of things and a lot of messages. There are a lot of needs, there's a lot of heartbreak and turmoil in some of those messages. Some people are just super lonely. So you have to really be empathetic and understanding that they may not understand — just like my kid might not understand — that I'm a human, that I have feelings, that I have my own needs, and then I'm trying to help you with your needs.
That's awesome. Well, thanks for sharing all that. I'm definitely not a parent, but as a kid who's like… I guess I'm not a kid anymore… I don't know… I'm in a weird in-between… I think now that I'm in school and not living with my parents kind of reflecting on childhood and all those things, it's so interesting to hear that.
Well, just remember that it's never too early to appreciate and thank them. My mom passed when I was in my 20s and I did get that opportunity. Actually, even with my dad who I didn't have a good relationship with… he died when I was in my early 20s, and I was able to even talk to him about it too. So I always tell anyone who will listen: tell people now. Tell them what you appreciate. And I still wish I could tell them some of the things I didn't, but at least I got a chance.
Yeah, absolutely. That's really beautiful. I wanted to ask you about the podcast that you're working on with Dr. Amy Lindsey and how music has been tied to health and community in your life, and just how it has felt to have that space separate from your KEXP show specifically to share the relationship between those things with other people.
When you're on the radio and when you do music, I talk to people but (except for special shows) you gotta keep moving at a pace. You're moving through it pretty quick, but I like having conversations with people and getting a little deeper. So that was sort of the start. And then Amy and I went through this pandemic. She has, many times, been on the air with me during Music Heals Day, especially since becoming a doctor. We're good in life together, but we're good on the air together as well. And so it became a chance to really show how connected we are with health and music and community, and keep this message going of how we can all look out for each other and that music is part of your health, that music does heal. She can get more into the actual health stuff, so we're kind of also trying to get people who I attract through music to hear what she has to say about your health, your mental health, your physical health, and people who she attracts who are already doing that into music and art and community. We're trying to bring these two audiences together, and then have guests on where we can talk about both because I've noticed with all of our guests, we're able to discuss music, we're able to discuss health, we're able to discuss where they meet.
Once we started it, it took a while to figure out if people actually want to hear our conversation. For us, we're just doing a conversation and we realized our favorite podcasts are actually that. It took a few times to figure out that it was interesting to people and that we were actually helping because we've seen the messages. So to be able to kind of double down on these things is important.
A good example of this is… my sister died two months ago. And, at some point, I actually came down here and decided to record how I was feeling with Amy, record what I was thinking. It was helpful to me because I wanted to talk to people but I didn't really feel social and this was the perfect opportunity to come down and talk about my grief, talk about what I'm going through. And it's our most popular podcast to date. A lot of people responded to it and having that forum, having trust built up with a community that I knew I could get on there and be honest, and then see the response has been why we do it.
A big part, which I mentioned, of why I started this newsletter was to connect and tell stories with my mom. And obviously, The Mom Show is such a moving and beautiful thing, and a way of telling the stories of our loved ones that I've never heard of or seen before. So first of all, thank you for creating that space. And if you're comfortable sharing, I'd love to know how sharing memories and stories and songs through that program has impacted you and what you hope listeners take away from it.
The first thing it did was… I think change KEXP as a radio station. It was 17 years ago that she passed, and I got on the air while that was going on and I didn't have a choice really in my mind but to be really honest with what was going on because I wasn't in a good place and it was very difficult. I had to leave and go to Spokane, which is 300 miles east where I grew up. So I had to be honest and being that honest and being on a morning show both were new. And as time went on after that anniversary, it just started to grow every year.
It was first just songs that had helped her and we had listened to. I did the music for her funeral, and then it became more and more other people's stories. As grief goes, time doesn't heal but time helps. Over time, grief changes. It never goes away, but it changes. So I was able to step away from my own grief and bring in other peoples’ stories and other peoples’ recent grief in most cases, not always, but a lot of people dealing with it for the first time and then they had a place to go that wasn't a support group or a family member. It was sort of almost a therapist, like a third party that understood as much as you can understand — everyone's grief is their own — but understood the loneliness. That's where “you're not alone” started being said on the air, it was during that show.
And so from that, we then expanded to the mental health show, because it's super, super connected to a lot of mortality and just to health and that was eye-opening to so many people because I hadn’t talked about my depression and anxiety on the air for the longest time — that was the last frontier for me. I don't tell everyone all the details of my life but like the major things, I did not. That's what a stigma that is that I didn't talk about it. I thought people wouldn't listen or they’d think I'm feeling sorry for myself, all the things that you've been raised on. And so that happened and then the Cancer Show and, again, my parents both died of cancer and many others in our community. And then the last to go is the addiction and recovery show with so many of our DJs — it’s led by Kevin Cole (our afternoon DJ) and he's been sober for decades now and then just in our music community, we see so much addiction, we see so much stuff going on in that. And then those days have been made and here I am coming full circle where my sister died after severe alcoholism and an eating disorder, and that to me… like I've done those shows in the past more on the people in my community and musicians, and then suddenly I'm faced with, this year, just after her passing to deal with my own sister's alcoholism. And so I even can see it in real time that the shows we created came full circle that then it was there for me.
And so it's changed really how we broadcast, how we talk to people — we're different than any other station. And for me… I haven't told many people this but my mission, my goal… I couldn't quite figure it out… was I wanted to do something that no one's ever done on the air before. I love radio. I love communicating with people through that. Streaming, live on the radio, even through the archive or however we communicate with people… all my life I've just clearly been a fan. And I think it's such an important medium and so important for people's health and just music discovery and I never could figure out how to do that and the irony is this entire time I've been doing that through the shows. Recently, it's occurred to me through this pandemic, that what we're doing in being there for people, and reminding them they're not alone, and really being honest about mental health and physical health and the pandemic and war and racial issues and societal issues — while still trying to break new music and everything else — is truly revolutionary. And if you're in it, you don't realize that. But you start looking from the outside and how people respond, and it's been a fundamental change and fundamental shift organically, not through any… I promise I've never sent an email or a message to my staff and said okay, we're gonna be “you're not alone” now and we're gonna be like therapy. It just happened. And I think when people look back, it's one of the most beautiful things to happen in media that I know.
I'm glad you've recently been able to recognize and affirm that for yourself because as someone who's just been listening and sort of watching that growth (even though when I first started listening to KEXP, I was too young to even understand) I think it's so true. I'm part of a generation that is getting to grow up on that and that is such a gift. So, thank you.
Is there a question that you wish you could ask your mom or someone else in your life?
I don't know how my mom and dad met. I have no idea. And nobody's alive to tell me. And I don't know why I care. Like it's the weirdest thing. I assume they were in the same area at the same time. They were in eastern Washington. But how did my mom end up with that guy? I would really like that information. And I feel like the answer would have been something like “well, if you knew him then.” Quite a charmer. What an outgoing guy. I guess I'm a healthier version of him. Maybe. That is one thing. Like sort of a funny thing I want to know, but there are so many questions.
I guess the question I would want to ask my mom would be a ton of questions that come up all the time. There's a certain person to call when things are rough or you need someone to hear you or tell you you did a good job, and that's your mom. That's a loved one that knows you, that's been around. Most of us have plenty of family that we don't connect with and it's just a coincidence we all are related. And I believe in a chosen family more than anyone you'll ever meet because I have an amazing circle of people and I only have my brother in my extended family. I have my two boys and my wife and it's great, but there are so many times I've been raising my sons or I've dealt with my own issue where I've wanted to call her and ask for advice or just to listen to me or for her to just say don't sweat the small things, or “you're going to be okay, you remember the last time you worried about this? What happened?” She would tell me that all the time. And if I can go and have that advice, and then just send my successes as well — people don't realize you can do a lot of things in life and most of the time you're not going to get a pat on the back. Unfortunately, people are going to tell you when you’re doing a bad job, they’re not gonna tell you necessarily when you did a good job. And I noticed this more and more that I struggle with how much do you need feedback from people or how much do you need a gold star, good job? And you realize, if you do, it's going to be your mom or dad.
My son, this weekend, he plays soccer, he's a good soccer player, he's a nine-year-old, he's good. But when he's out there lately, something's holding him back and we are trying to figure it out if he’s just tired or… he's an observer. He's kind of watching the game. He’s a lot like my wife. He's looking at everything and then he kind of acts and then he's great. But I said… what if you gave your full potential this game? Just go for it. Just try the whole time. He’s like, okay, alright. And he hadn’t scored a goal and we’re not about goals we’re just about trying hard. Well, this little kid… five minutes in and he looks like Messi out there. He scores a goal. Beautiful goal too... Amazing. And I step out of my little lawn chair, I jump onto the field illegally. And I'm just like, “yeah!” and his buddies go to charge him and he's doing this victory run… it's like a plane. He runs right by them and catches my eye. He runs straight for the sideline, he jumps up in the air, I catch him and — I'm gonna cry — but he held me and I can feel him just holding me for everything he had. And I was just like, I am so proud of you. Good job, man. And he jumped down and then he went and celebrated with his friends. Five minutes later, kid goes up, scores his second goal of the season, turns towards me and does the same thing again — jumps, and so it wasn't even a one-off. And I realized he needs me. He knows that I'm the person that's gonna say good job, that I'm proud of you, that you did a great job man.
You realize, even as an adult, that never goes away. You still want someone there to tell you good job. Or you’re going to be okay. Or I'm proud of you. And I think more than anything, more than even a question I would ask… it'd be nice if my mom would check in, hear my show or see a success or how I’ve helped somebody or done something like be a good dad and say good job. I'm proud of you.
Oh, that's so special. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think that's something that your son will remember forever.
It’s top ten for me, so I'm never gonna let him forget. As I told you that, I can see him. I can see his happiness and nothing brings you more joy. Man. I had no idea when I was having kids that you could experience this level of joy. There's so much work, and it's so hard. And then you just get one of these and you're like, alright, I got it now. That moment… it kept me going.
Do you have a favorite song that is either about moms or has the word mom in it?
I have favorite songs about my mom, I’m trying to think of any of them that I play. Well, the heartbreaking mom song… I’ve played it for many people. It's from Chocolate Genius. It's called “My Mom” and it's about a mom suffering from Alzheimer's. And I think about that. That's like a heartbreaking song.
And then my dad song is Michael Franti with “Never Too Late” and that's a heartbreaking dad song.
Is there a positive one I can think of? Ah, it doesn't have mom but the title is “Station Approach” from Elbow. It just has a line in it. “Haven't seen my mom in several days.” There's something about that song. I haven't seen my mom. It's like he's just sort of getting through his day and there's a lot of energy in the song and it just sort of mentions that part of his emotional journey he’s on. He hasn’t seen his mom in a few days, just like something you would say if your mom was with you, and you were close to her. I don't know, there's something about it that gets to me.
If you want to hear more from John, here is a list of links to cool things he does all in one place. Listen to the Morning Show. Listen to the radio. Listen to music. Tell your people you love them.
Thank you, John.